Live Takes in One Room: Tricks for mic placement with Drums/guitar/Vocals

[runpre311]

I wanted to start this thread to discuss different people's approach to miking a room. I am looking to record a quick album for someone using all live takes (little-to-no overdubs). this means drums and vocals all go down at once. Any advice to keep the bleed down from the drums on the vocal condenser mic? (it is a relatively small room 18x20?) We have some old doors that we have thrown blankets over to go between the two and that helps. But when your drummer plays really loud its hard to stop that from clipping (thus ruining the whole vocal track). I guess one way to do it would be to set up several condensers to capture the room (and rely less on the drum mics) to instill a sense of atmosphere or ambience with the drummer, which may keep his agressiveness under control and may teach the other players some idea of room/mic positioning. Another option could be using some compression/limiters- but I am not sure what or exactly how that would work with the 'natural' sound we are going for. Any comments, previous experience, or thoughts on the subject of Room Mics, Drum and vocal live takes, drum mic compression, etc. etc. Would be appreciated.

[dagosto]

Always remember the 3-1 rule (any must other mic must be three times as far from the source as the close mic for that source). This is the most important thing to keep in mind. Everything else is easy to fix in a mix with filters and such. Phase, not as much (but it still can be done if you are a mix wizard). As far as the clipping goes, compression and turning down are the only way to deal with that. Otherwise get ready to edit.

I do not like to really on room mics myself. Close mics are the only way to be sure that you will have control over the sound. I only use them if I have spare channels.

[lukedavo]

It might be tough and awkward, but get some cans and put the vocal person somewhere else. Out in the hallway, in the bathroom, just away from the freakin drums, thats a start. Those are the two things that at all costs you should record seperately, I was recording a loud hitting drummer live, the vox wanted to record at the same time, I explained my rational behind not recording the two, it obviously wasn't good enough so the results did all the talking for me. I used a seperate room, and there was still drums in the vox , even using a SM7. Another option would be to use a decent dynamic mic with a tight pattern, to eliminate some of that bleed, guide the other musicians, and come back and also have a guide for some vox ODs. JMO

[Nubus]

you can nudge the vocals and guitars forward in time so that the bleed from dums lines up with the close drum mics. you can record the guitars direct and reamp them. you can cover the singer in moving blankets if he's cool

[Bellringer]

In a room that size you can't avoid bleed from drums into a condenser vocal. I've pulled it off with an SM58 with a gate. Though you have to be careful or you will get chopped vocals. You could just go for the live mix. Run everything through a PA and mic it.
The best choice is to overdub the vocals.

[Nubus]

Hey I tried this this weekend and it really worked better than I'd hoped. I used a figure 8 on drums in front of the kit a couple feet. The amps were positioned in the null of that pattern - basically amps pointing right at the side of the mic. Worked really really well, much better than pointing into the side of a cardiod.

[Nubus]

Here is a trick I read about but haven't tried. If you have an open back cab you can reduce bleed from the other instruments into the guitar mic by putting a second mic on the back of the speaker and reversing it's polarity. In theory then any sound that bleeds into those mics from the other instruments in the room should cancel out of the guitar recording.

[dagosto]

Originally Posted by Nubus

Here is a trick I read about but haven't tried. If you have an open back cab you can reduce bleed from the other instruments into the guitar mic by putting a second mic on the back of the speaker and reversing it's polarity. In theory then any sound that bleeds into those mics from the other instruments in the room should cancel out of the guitar recording.

I think the cancellation will only work on lower frequencies in with this trick. Higher frequencies are far less phase dependant. There is a good chance you could turn good bleed into bad bleed with this trick. I like good bleed.

[Whoopysnorp]

Does anybody have tips for avoiding excessive bleed from the guitar amp into the drum mics? Or should I just turn my amp down and put up some guitar cases as baffles?

[Nubus]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

Does anybody have tips for avoiding excessive bleed from the guitar amp into the drum mics? Or should I just turn my amp down and put up some guitar cases as baffles?

Since you are going to use that 421 on floor tom instead of a condenser that will help a bit. Best luck I've had was using that RSM-2 on the kit and pointing the guitar and bass amp at the mic's side. In that case I didn't use any condensers on the drums so I guess that helped too.

The most rejection I was able to get all at once in the same room was at my old coach house. We played in the attic. I was able to put the amps on one side of the room pointing at the staircase and the drums on the other. I guess it was the wooden floor that let the bass just travel through it instead of across it and into the drum mics.

I put a heavy blanket over the guitar amp once but the guitarist didn't like it because it affected his ability to make feedback.

I hope you don't end up having to turn down.