looks like garage sale junk

[mikegee]

what's the deal with vintage gear? how come some really old guitars/amps/banjos etc etc etc are worth a whole lotta cash $$$, and other really cool old gear isnt worth squat??? anybody have any idea how they figure out a price for this stuff? is it wily nily? or do they go on historical sales? what a scam! its old junky gear. most the stuff looks like garage sale junk.

[johnS]

Originally Posted by mikegee

what's the deal with vintage gear? how come some really old guitars/amps/banjos etc etc etc are worth a whole lotta cash $$$, and other really cool old gear isnt worth squat??? anybody have any idea how they figure out a price for this stuff? is it wily nily? or do they go on historical sales? what a scam! its old junky gear. most the stuff looks like garage sale junk.

I tend to agree. "Old = good" is an illusion created by the fact that only the good old stuff is remembered, while the crap old stuff rots in attics and landfills--and sometimes shows up in garage sales.

And while there is good old stuff, there's also good new stuff. And with the good new stuff, you get a warranty, and the pots are quiet, and you don't have to pay that snobby "vintage premium" for it, etc.

[dagosto]

There are two cases where most often old stuff is better that I can think of. Any wooden instrument's sound opens up over time as long as it has been kept in a decent environment. Also, tubes are no longer built to higher specs.

[mikegee]

haha! ok, yea, i was exagerating some in my original post, i admit... good points. i can see why old collector discontinued models would sell for more, or like ya said, if the instruments sound better over time. and i guess collectors jack up the prices by bidding high at auctions too. but i just dont see the logic in spending thousands of $ on old stuff that may need new electronics, wiring or reconditioning, especially with no warranties, its a real gamble. like ya said, new is new, and its warrantied...

[Bellringer]

It's like any products out there. Some items used to be made great no matter the price. Other items are made better today than when they were invented. You can't judge value based on age alone. You could be buying garbage just to feel vintage.

[dolivas]

Synth prices are the ones I can imagine skyrocket when sold. reason being because most companies with a certain synth that youl like the sound off have very little incentive to make that synth again. So the diminishing supply of such an item raises the price of that item because of increased demand. Guitar pricing I imagine follows allong the same line. The more an item grows old the higher the value it generates.

But usually the line between what makes something truly vintage or truly oversold garbage is the exclusivity of that item and what it can produce for you.

[GearJunkie]

in terms of guitars, I see it like this.... Back in the day, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Martin, etc e tc... were "boutique" guitars. These were hand made guitars that had been "crafted", not just pasted out like guitars of today. The feel of these guitars, the quality control, and the componants used then make a 1970's Gibson Les Paul Standard far superior to that of a 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard.

[mikegee]

Originally Posted by dolivas

Synth prices are the ones I can imagine skyrocket when sold. reason being because most companies with a certain synth that youl like the sound off have very little incentive to make that synth again. So the diminishing supply of such an item raises the price of that item because of increased demand. Guitar pricing I imagine follows allong the same line. The more an item grows old the higher the value it generates.

But usually the line between what makes something truly vintage or truly oversold garbage is the exclusivity of that item and what it can produce for you.

good point on synths. yea, i have the original ensoniq mirage, and although the original curtis processors are noisy, and the keys are squeaky, and the sample time is outrageously small, still, the sampled sounds sound great. i'm glad i bought it cheap. some peeps will play it and say "yuk, this isnt so great" but others know its a nice unit to have in a studio... i got mine for $225, but ive seen much higher and much lower prices when i see them being sold...

[johnS]

Originally Posted by mikegee

good point on synths. yea, i have the original ensoniq mirage, and although the original curtis processors are noisy, and the keys are squeaky, and the sample time is outrageously small, still, the sampled sounds sound great. i'm glad i bought it cheap. some peeps will play it and say "yuk, this isnt so great" but others know its a nice unit to have in a studio... i got mine for $225, but ive seen much higher and much lower prices when i see them being sold...

I wonder how the first-generation analog modeling synths will fare as they age? They get their sounds (personality) from algorithms, which get better with each new generation. Meaning the first-gen modeling synths won't sound as good as newer versions with more refined algorithms (unless you can upgrade the software or firmware or whatever--which is not the case with many of these DSP synths).

So assuming the synth engine in "locked in" (not upgradable), are hardware modeling synths like musical instruments, with a chance at becoming vintage, or like computers, with no chance whatsoever?

(I'm asking partly because I have a Roland JP-8000, which I bought used in 2000 but I think first appeared in 1996. I also had an old 133 MHz Pentium PC that I bought for $3K in 1996. I literally threw it out last year becuase it basically had become a paperweight--in no way shape or form was it ever "vintage.")

Are there some quirks beyond the outdated algorithms that will make first-gen modeling synths desirable as "vintage" instruments, even though their sounds have been thoroughly trounced by their younger, better counterparts?

[johnS]

Originally Posted by johnS

I wonder how the first-generation analog modeling synths will fare as they age? They get their sounds (personality) from algorithms, which get better with each new generation. Meaning the first-gen modeling synths won't sound as good as newer versions with more refined algorithms (unless you can upgrade the software or firmware or whatever--which is not the case with many of these DSP synths).

So assuming the synth engine in "locked in" (not upgradable), are hardware modeling synths like musical instruments, with a chance at becoming vintage, or like computers, with no chance whatsoever?

(I'm asking partly because I have a Roland JP-8000, which I bought used in 2000 but I think first appeared in 1996. I also had an old 133 MHz Pentium PC that I bought for $3K in 1996. I literally threw it out last year becuase it basically had become a paperweight--in no way shape or form was it ever "vintage.")

Are there some quirks beyond the outdated algorithms that will make first-gen modeling synths desirable as "vintage" instruments, even though their sounds have been thoroughly trounced by their younger, better counterparts?

Actually this is off topic for the guitar forum, but what the hey hey?