Green Noob with some questions

[Norberto]

Hi Everyone,

I found Gearwire on YouTube and received an invite to this board by your very own Dan Agosto.

I don't know as much as I would like to about recording and equipment so here I am. I hope these questions aren't terribly mundane.

GEAR I OWN (not a total inventory):
-Acoustic & Electric Guitars
-MXL V67 mic
-SR-16 Drum Machine
-M-Audio FW 410
-Grado SR-80 (AKA "my monitors")
-XP PC with firewire

USES:
-I like to record vocals, acoustic, electric guitars. No drums for now but it would be good to have that option.
-I need to record comedy sketches. Multiple actors coming into the studio, readings scripts, etc.
-I would like to try Podcasting
-I want to put out good, professional sounding audio. So I need software AND knowledge on good, basic recording practices and mastering for reproduction.

QUESTIONS & THOUGHTS

For now, I think my FW410 will do for basic acoustic and vocal songwriting. I think it will keep me going also podcasting. But as you can imagine I'm looking to increase the scope of my recording and I need to buy new equipment. This is where I get stuck.

I want equipment I can grow with but I also can't afford the best of the best.

At first the firewire offerings by Alesis and M-audio appealed to me but after watching a couple of episodes of Crosstalk I think I want to take another direction.

SO HERE'S WHERE I AM AT:

1. I am thinking of purchasing a Firewire, preamp interface like MOTU's PRE8 plus some sort of analog mixer. But since I don't know enough about audio and all the equipment out there I don't know how all of the pieces will end up working together. Am I thinking properly here? If so, what kind of mixer would you all recommend (around $500 or less)?

2. An outboard compressor seems essential to me. For the comedy sketches I can't imagine needing more than four inputs for a compressor as I could always overdub. But it would be great to have that interaction with other comics/actors so maybe something with no less than two inputs. What's good-enough and cheap ?

3. I would like to use one piece of software to record for the PC. So far I'm considering Sonar. Any thoughts?

4. What would be the fastest way to learn about getting good audio signals into my DAW, Normalizing, Mixing and Master? DVDs? Youtube videos? Books (usually takes the longest)?


I know I'm asking a lot here but I hope I've organized my thoughts and questions well enough.

Thanks!

[dagosto]

Hey Norberto. Seems like your on a good track. I'll address the questions under "SO HERE'S WHERE I'M AT"

1. I'm not sure if you would actually need a mixer. The 8pre interface has eight microphone inputs, and they can handel guitar or synth inouts as well. If you are able to place the interface within easy reach you can ride levels just like you would with a mixer.

The only reasons you would need a mixer is if you wanted to make a submix before going to the interface (say taking four mics and mixing to two channels so there are six inputs left on the interface left). You may also want to run a mic into your compressor or eq before going into the 8pre. For the latter you would be better off getting a dedicated bank of mic pres like a Studio Projects SP828 which actually acts as a mixer as well.

2. The dbx compressors are great for the price you can get a dual channel for around $200. There is a quad version too.

3. Sonar is great for me.

4. There are lots of resources on the web. We actually made a module of google search called gearspider.com that searches valid gear related forums. Also keep checking out my engineering 101 series, which I will be expanding on in the near future.

[Norberto]

Originally Posted by dagosto

The only reasons you would need a mixer is if you wanted to make a submix before going to the interface (say taking four mics and mixing to two channels so there are six inputs left on the interface left). You may also want to run a mic into your compressor or eq before going into the 8pre. For the latter you would be better off getting a dedicated bank of mic pres like a Studio Projects SP828 which actually acts as a mixer as well.

If I can do my job without BUYING more stuff (mixer) I'm all for it!

But I don't understand the part where you suggest buying a dedicated bank of mic pres if I want to use compression.

I think I don't understand how this layout/signal path would work. This is what I was *assuming*.

Mic(s) -> 8pre -> Compression -> back to 8pre -> Sonar

Is this where "Inserts" would come in handy? Looking at the MOTU it doesn't look like it has them.

[dagosto]

That is exactly why I thought you would need other pres. I thought perhaps you wanted the mixer so you could go:

Mixer>Comp>8pre line ins

And instead af a mixer I thought you could go for something like

MAudio Octane>Comp>8pre line ins

The setup you described wouldn't work precisely because there are no inserts on the MOTU. This, of course, is a bummer.

However, we get by without outboard compressors here. When recording GW Crosstalk we are going straight into the pre's of our interface, the RME Fireface 800. The pre's are ok but there are no pre digital inserts and no built in compression.

I believe that the trick is to be very conservative in your level setting. Also make sure you are recording at 24-bit. I know everybody says you want to use as many bits as possible but when recording at 24 bits you get a lot of fidelity even at the lower volumes. In a broadcast setting it is so much more essential that you not clip rather than lose a few bits of resolution, which you won't even notice at 24 bits.

You do however want to get the talent to address the mic properly though. Talking off mic can cause intelligibility, reverberant, ambient, and line noise problems. That is the real culprit. Compressors can help more with that sort of thing but won't fix it. Also as long as you have halfway decent levels and pres with low enough self noise it doesn't matter whether or not the compressor is outboard or a plug-in. The self noise of the Motu's pres shouldn't be high enough to make that a huge issue.

Of course if you need a compressor before ADC (analog to digital conversion) you need one. Even in our studio every once in a while we get a quick clip which we usually let go. So don't let me talk you out of one if you really need the product to be clipless. I have outboard compressers in my own studio and I use them as pre ADC limiters all the time.

[Norberto]

Dan,

I hear what you're saying and it makes total sense. I'm starting to see things a little clearer.

Have you every played with the Tascam FW1884? It's about $200 cheaper than the RME Fireface 800 and it's basically a nice board with 100mm faders and INSERTS on every channel! It's also compatible with Nuendo and Sonar among others.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/FW-1884/fw1884_rear.jpg

[dagosto]

I've never used it myself but I know people who have. One thing to keep in mind is that it is not a mixer. All the faders do is allow you to contro the faders inside your recording program. That may work for you.

The Tascam may be a good choice for you but for those I know who have used this it acted as a bit of a stop gap. What I'm saying is that it worked for them but after a while they realized they wanted something with higher quality ADC. Of course I am talking about proffesional musicians who want to record entire bands. The sound quality is not by any means bad, but there is room for improvement. Unfortunately this improve may come at an impractical price. The MOTU probably has a slight leg up on the Tascam when it comes to sound quality. The RME stuff would have even more of a leg up. The difference between these steps is slight but it is definitely there.

What I find is that a lot of people think everything sounds great at first but then after a while they notice there is a little something lacking in their recordings that proffesional recordings have. After updating all the mics and outboard gear they will finally upgrade to an expensive ADC which is often the culprit of the less tangible problems with a recording.

Other than that I think it would be a fine piece to get your feet wet with serious multitrack digital recording, plus it seems to fit your individual needs at the moment. Just don't think this is the last thing you're gonna want. This stuff is addictive.