the hot mix

[dagosto]

Yeah I know there are so many reasons to not squash our master buss with the latest brick wall limiter:

1. Mastering Engineers hate that
2. It tires the listeners ears out
3. Radio stations are gonna squash it further
on and on

Unfortunately, bands often don't have the scratch for a good mastering engineer if they can afford one at all. Also you gotta have that volume up when the disc is in someones 500 CD disc changer.

What's the best way to deal with this duality. Do you sacrifice the pressure level for dynamics or do you squash away to compete for ears? How do you achieve your perfect level?

[Whoopysnorp]

I try to find a good middle ground. I don't want my CD to sound quiet but I definitely don't want it to sound like the last few Red Hot Chili Peppers albums or something. I can't justify taking my stuff to a real mastering engineer so I use Ozone--the limiter in that plugin can work pretty well if you don't push it. It's quite a conundrum, though--there's a fine line between an anemic-sounding CD and one that is just way too hot and in your face.

[Nubus]

I hate that crap man. I don't understand this loudness war. Mixes sound cool before there is limiting on them.

My wife is a stickler about it, she puts the mix right into her iTunes and starts comparing how it sounds compared to commercial releases. I try not to do that anymore. I just limit it a tiny bit... only like 3 dB every once in a while and things usually hold up just fine.

Then I'll notice something strange when something like Martina Topley Bird comes on in my headphones and she's whispering but she is way too loud! If the song calls for it can't it be quiet? Not every CD has to be the loudest CD. Did this issue only arise with the advent of the compact disc?

[Whoopysnorp]

I think with LPs everybody was limited to a specific dynamic range, and I doubt vinyl would be able to handle today's super-compressed mixes. I doubt the needle would be able to track it. Ironically, though the CD has more dynamic range than the LP ever did, people don't use it.

[dagosto]

I think it has a lot to do with lower resolution Digital sounding better. Sure there are more dB available on a CD but as things get quieter the number of bits being used goes down. Hopefully, HD audio will quell some of this problem when and if it evr comes into prominence.

Another problem is radio. The louder a song is the more likely people will be forced to listen to it in their cars, work, etc. This way the inane hooks of today's jams will undoubtedly worm their way into your mind and you will have no choice but to legally download the album; or buy the CD if you are old school.

[Nubus]

Aside from Ozone what other plug-ins are you using to do a little to the master fader?

Sometimes I will use L2, sometimes the PSP Vintage Warmer. If I do use either one I make sure to barely use it at all.

I used to use the L1 a lot on stuff (I'm sure I ruined some things) until I started editing voice overs and we'd use it on single mono wave files. I couldn't believe how bad it sounded when it distorted. Not to say that the L1 inherently sounds bad, it just matters how you use it. Hearing how a limiter distorts on something simple such as voice over makes it much easier to hear it distorting on complex things like a mix.

[dagosto]

I use the L2 and the Vintage Warmer sometimes too. If I do use the L2 it is just to add a little bit of gain and keep a few errant peaks from clipping. I like what the Vintage Warmer does even when you hit it hard but Again I usually end up using it the same way. Plus it is a CPU cheap multiband compressor. I find these days that eq is the thing that can really help increase loudness. I usually end up using a low shelf cut along with some broadband mid boost (max +3dB) to get more energy out of the mix if needed.

[SorenP]

Audiotrack (by waves i think?) is great for giving home mixes a little gain and stereo bus compression. Been making a huge difference for me lately

[abarnett]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

I think with LPs everybody was limited to a specific dynamic range, and I doubt vinyl would be able to handle today's super-compressed mixes. I doubt the needle would be able to track it. Ironically, though the CD has more dynamic range than the LP ever did, people don't use it.

"Vinyl is an unforgiving medium, and mastering for it is extremely difficult. Its dynamic range is a puny 50dB or so, even with decent vinyl, compared to the 80dB or more we enjoy with even the most basic digital media"
-Craig Anderton, Sound on Sound.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...rmastering.htm

Slick little article. For vynil in general, other things I can't cite right now recommend keeping all freq below 500Hz dead center. And also reccomend keeping things under 16 minutes a side and not loud at the end of a side. I've also read that there is a high-end roll-off at about 10khz.[citation needed] which is typically compensated for in mastering.

Totally sucks that I can't pay mastering engineers, but I can't.

[dagosto]

Originally Posted by abarnett

"Vinyl is an unforgiving medium, and mastering for it is extremely difficult. Its dynamic range is a puny 50dB or so, even with decent vinyl, compared to the 80dB or more we enjoy with even the most basic digital media"
-Craig Anderton, Sound on Sound.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...rmastering.htm

Slick little article. For vynil in general, other things I can't cite right now recommend keeping all freq below 500Hz dead center. And also reccomend keeping things under 16 minutes a side and not loud at the end of a side. I've also read that there is a high-end roll-off at about 10khz.[citation needed] which is typically compensated for in mastering.

Totally sucks that I can't pay mastering engineers, but I can't.

Hi Alex.

Keeping things quiet at the end of a side is new to me. I am currently writing an album for my band and we want it to harken back to the good old days of rock. Even though the initial release (self release most likely) will be on CD it is something to think about in the architecture of the album as a whole.